Sebastian Junger has spent decades documenting war, and his family has spent generations fleeing fascism. So when the bestselling author of The Perfect Storm, War, and Tribe sat down for Narativ Live, he brought a perspective few others can offer on America’s current moment.
His father Miguel fled fascism twice before turning 18 - first from Franco’s Spain in 1936, then from Nazi-occupied France in 1940. “I like to say that because of the fascists, my father spoke five languages fluently,” Junger said. That father became a physicist, raised his son as a rationalist and atheist, and never returned to Europe because he wasn’t convinced fascism wouldn’t come back.
Now Junger watches America with the same question in mind. He calls Trump “a wannabe fascist” who “fulfills the definition of fascism” - noting Trump once asked a general if the military could shoot protesters in the legs. “That’s the kind of thing fascists say,” Junger observed. But unlike many on the left, he believes Trump will fail. “Dictators always look good until the last five minutes,” he said, quoting a Czech statesman who watched fascism rise in the 1930s. “Only Franco survived to die a natural death. It’s a very, very unstable form of government.”
Junger pointed to Trump’s string of failures - Greenland, the wall, Minneapolis blowing up in his face - and the Democrats winning special elections in conservative Texas districts. “Bloodbaths for the ruling party do not happen in a fascist state,” he said. “We are not a fascist country.” He attributes America’s resilience to 250 years of democratic tradition that Germany in the 1930s simply didn’t have.
But the conversation took its most profound turn when Junger described the summer of 2020, when a ruptured aneurysm nearly killed him at his Cape Cod home. He was bleeding internally at a pint every 10-15 minutes, an hour from the hospital. “I was literally a human hourglass,” he said. In end-stage hemorrhagic shock, minutes from death, something extraordinary happened: he saw his dead father.
“A big black pit opened up underneath me that I was getting pulled into, and I was terrified of it. And my dead father appeared above me and basically communicated to me: it’s okay, you don’t have to fight it, you can come with me, I’ll take care of you.” Junger, the lifelong atheist, the son of a physicist, had no framework for what he experienced. “There aren’t words in English for what I was looking at. It was his essence. An energy field that was immediately and intimately recognizable to me as my father.”
What haunts him isn’t the vision itself - science can explain dying brain chemistry - but the universality of it. “The dying seem to all have the same vision. If you give a roomful of people LSD, they see wildly different things. But the dying see the dead - even people they didn’t know had died.” He can’t quite explain that through brain chemistry alone.
The ICU nurse who saved him offered a reframe he’s been thinking about ever since: “Instead of thinking about it like something scary, try thinking about it like something sacred.” His latest book, In My Time of Dying, is his attempt to follow that advice.
Junger now lives on Manhattan’s Lower East Side with his wife and two daughters. He doesn’t own a smartphone - “I think they’re ghastly, addictive, and awful” - and plays accordion for strangers in Tompkins Square Park. At 64, having nearly died while his daughters were still babies, he has a different relationship with time. “I’m an older father. I have an awareness of mortality that many younger parents might not have.”
When asked what gives him hope, Junger didn’t offer easy comfort. “I don’t think good really won in the early 1940s until ‘45 rolled around. It’s a tennis game.” But he pointed to the brave people who have vowed with their lives to fight sociopaths. “Human morality comes from humans. It’s not divinely directed. And to me there’s great hope there.”
His father fled fascism. He will die an antifascist. But he doesn’t think Americans need to run - not yet, maybe not ever. The system is holding. The question is whether we can hold it together.
Watch the full conversation on Narativ Live.
Sebastian Junger’s latest book In My Time of Dying is available now. His Substack, Tribe, is free to subscribe.
Thank you Lyudmila and Daniel, Stephanie G Wilson, PhD, Richard Hogan, MD, PhD(2), DBA, Karen Hinton, Social SLP, and many others for tuning into my live video! Join me for my next live video in the app.
